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+--- Thread: Horn of Valere/Plotting/Past Life (/thread-1470.html)
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RE: Horn of Valere/Plotting/Past Life - Ascendancy - 03-27-2023
(03-27-2023, 09:08 PM)Marcus DuBois Wrote: So the canonical Bible doesn't mention Gabriel in reference to a trumpet. Gabriel appears as an angel who spoke to Daniel and then the angel who performed the annunciation to Mary in the gospels (Luke, I think). The apocrypha (Tobit, I think- probably many others including documents in the Dead Sea Scrolls) expands out the idea of archangels, and in particular that there are seven of them. Gabriel, Raphael, etc. Traditions also merges a lot of these things together (Similar to how Mary Magdalene is spoken as a former prostitute because she is conflated with two other female characters in the gospels.)
BUT, to the point about the Trumpets, there are 2 places in particular that can be mined. 1 Thessalonians 4 speaks of the voice of an archangel, and speaking as a trumpet when he raises the dead at the end. And Revelation speaks of the 7 trumpet blasts which bring various plagues, etc.
The first one definitely has echoes in the horn of valere and how it is used in the WOT series mythos. Be interesting to see how this could be incorporated. The question of where it came from is now something I really am curious about, given our game history. Each age is fairly well mapped out and it's hard to see in which it could come into existence. I confess I like the *finn idea for many reasons (including the paradox aspect)..
In many ways, the horn feels like the portals- sort of out of time- and out of sync- with the rest of the RJ world. It is an early WOTism, when RJ was still fleshing out his world. Rand still was going to go blind literally and wander as a wounded beggar, Elayne would lose a hand, etc (Livingston's book). Rand appearing above the sky in Falme (retconned as a "Pattern Level Event" by RJ later.) He was still doing the world building. I think that makes it harder for me to fit it into the world lore.
In my head, the Hebrew mythology of the Old Testament is late 6th Age. The New Testament is firmly 7th Age.
We do know prophets can exist throughout all the ages since their ability isn't tied to channeling. A lot of the Hebrew, including the possible 7th Age NT 'abilities' I rationalize as 'prophet' in our world.
The lore with which the OT was built, creation of the world, etc, fits more 6th Age to me.
Its tricky so I kind of hand-wave it. :/
RE: Horn of Valere/Plotting/Past Life - Thalia - 03-27-2023
There is a 7th Age. But otherwise that makes sense. We still have "legends" from the 5th and 6th Ages in the 1st.
I'm all for the finn idea. There's no reason it can't happen in the 1st Age and therefore in game.
RE: Horn of Valere/Plotting/Past Life - Marcus DuBois - 03-27-2023
Yeah, that works Asc. I like that we can mine these things and pick and choose what works or is interesting. That how RJ did it. Using those myths from the OT/NT as we like works. (Though I wonder if anyone would be bold enough to write Yahweh as a channeler "god" from the 6th age who is reborn. :-D From a historical perspective, it is not unfounded. There is a lot of evidence- textual and otherwise- that the god of the hebrews was in a pantheon of other gods (hence the term God of gods). He was sometimes paired a goddess consort, Asherah. And he apparantly had different names and incarnations depending on the town. But it might be somewhat insensitive- or at least troubling for some- to go down that route. Which I completely understand.)
Ohh...something occurs to me. At the end of WOT, Rand lit his pipe without the power. While this is never explained (on purpose), the implication is that he had transcended the pattern. That he had reached the point where he could weave the pattern itself- which he had done during his battle with the dark one. He had access to and even saw the souls outside the pattern.
He had become Neo in the Matrix.
What if, in the 5th or 6th age, there was a channeler (Rand/Nik level) who achieved that kind of transcendence. (And now I think of the Buddha, who had achieved Moksha/release and put off his passing to nirvana in order to teach enlightenment to others.)
What if this channeler...and why couldn't it be Amerasu?- had performed a similar feat back then to achieve enlightenment and was able to create the horn of valere against future need? Perhaps she had called previous souls to life in her power...and thus created a talisman to do it again?
Just making stuff up....
RE: Horn of Valere/Plotting/Past Life - Jaxen Marveet - 03-28-2023
I'm with you Marcus. I always felt the Horn was sort of an early RJ idea that never really got used again. At least not like it should have. By the end of the books, it felt retconned in the LB.
Possibilities are there though.
Notably, if the pattern has objects that can be used for purposes of the light, are there similar ones for purposes of the dark. The Shadow had their own prophecies. why not their own objects?