Thoughts on pop culture

[Ascendancy]

The state of 40's pop culture has come up in conversation lately. What is the pop-culture of 2045? What differences exist between the CCD and USA, for instance? How does this reflect the massive changes seen in the past 25 years?

Dive in!

[Connor Kent]

One of the things that interest me is the way that pop culture reflects the mental state of a society as a whole. That's not to say that there is (or ever has been) one single homogeneous culture. Even during the days of 3 networks, the few big movie studios and top 40 radio there have always been subcultures. But that being said, smoothed out, simplified and taken as a whole, pop culture provides us with a rough mirror of society.

An easy example comes to mind: the 70s. The 70s began with America mired in Vietnam. The counter culture that had started with the Beatniks/Keruoac generation and which continued into the hippie protest movements of the late 60s- with their optimism and potential feeling of change- had given away to the reality of the world. Many of them had gotten out of school and had entered the real world. It was disheartnening. The economy sucked with runaway inflation and the gas crisis. The trust in the presidency that had eroded under Johnson was further dealt a severe blow with Nixon's Watergate scandal. Tensions with the Soviets continued to be high.

Pop culture reflected that. Cinema feature a number of dystopian or disaster movies like the Poseiden Adventure. Or they featured gritty anti-heroes played by Clint Eastwood or Al Pacino. Sitcoms like Good Times and others portrayed blue-collar struggling families trying to make it despite social and economic ills. At the same time, when presented with movies that hearkened back to an earlier or more innocent time, like Star Wars or American Graffiti, they were embraced as a very much appreciated breath of fresh air. (That whole American Graffiti thing led to the reemergence of late 50s/early 60's culture that became popular in the late 70s and early 80s with things like Grease, Happy Days, Laverne and Shirley or Sha-na-na.) Music trended in a number of directions too. The thoughtful, earnest singer songwriter tradition like Springsteen, the birth and growth of metal acts like Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin, arena rock, the anger of punk, or the pure forget-about-life-and-just-enjoy hedonism of disco. The pop culture (over time) reflected the entire multifaceted mindset that evolved thru the 70s. The same thing can be done with the 80s or 90s or 2000s- the culture can been viewed thru the lens of music and entertainment- the ways people fed their minds or hearts, what appealed and so forth.

So I wonder about the 2040s. Of course, the channels are more varied. The means by which people consume media has fragmented into numerous venues even now. But even with all that, there should be some larger trends either in the 2040s or leading up to it that will be reflected.

Two events I see as being huge are the ascendency of the CCD and the increasing loss of prominence of the US. As both began in the 2020s, they have been going for a while (and began only a few years from today). So I see that CCD artists and movies would be reflecting the optimism and sense of justified restored power that is going on (look how proud Putin makes Russians today after decades of marginalization). It might be similar to the jingoistic unapologetic un-self-deprecating sincerity of the 80s. Think Top Gun or Red Dawn or Rambo or other Reagan era blockbusters or sitcoms. When Reagan beat Mondale in 84 by like 95% Mondale's VP pick questioned why so many, in the midst of economic anemia and Reaganomics, had voted for him, people responded "He makes us proud." The situation seems parallel to CCD growth and so their pop culture would reflect those same trends.

By contrast, the US, once occupying the position of leader of the free world, sole superpower after 91, and economic powerhouse, has now lost much over the decades. I see a couple of trends, mimicking the 70s. On the one hand reflection of the sense of loss and lack of hope- the dystopian movies or anti-heroes, the portrayals of struggling families, the rebellious, disillusioned or angry music, the hedonistic forget-about-life avenues.

At the same time, the past might be looked back on and romanticized, in particular when the US was at its unchallenged peak- the 90s, when it stood uncontested as THE superpower, when it led the world with the newest and most powerful innovations like the internet, when the country (and to the America-centric, the world) enjoyed a decade of peace and lack of any real wars or threats, when there was a great budget surplus and the stock market boomed with the tech bubble, a decade that ended on 9-11- that would be the time most recent to look back with fondness and perhaps recreate.

It's a romanticized simplistic view of the last. But that's ok. Its how we digest the past in manageable and comprehensible chunks. And I am not commenting on causes of that time period (what political policies contributed to them). I am just imagining the way people might look back on it (and might even nostalgically long for as they did in the 70s with the 50s or even in the late 90s with the brief resurgence of 40s big band culture that lasted about a minute.)

Of course with the internet and porous nature of the CCD borders it is probable that even they would have those American subcultures of the 90s or other decades. (At the 94 MTV VMAs the Finnish group the Leningrad Cowboys presented themselves as Soviet Era military embracing 60s southern culture. And Japan has the same thing with their Yanqii subculture) So that kind of thing could be occuring in the CCD

Anyway those are my over-generalizations and ideas for what pop culture might look like. Course its late and Ive been sipping rum for thr last hour, so, you know...

(Edited cuz typing on a phone when drinking tends to lead to errors in spelling and clarity.)

(edited again to throw in some links)


Edited by Connor Kent, Apr 13 2014, 10:35 AM.

[Jaxen Marveet]

Connor's explanation was incredibly smart. At running the risk of posting next and sounding like am imbecile in comparison, here's my two cents.

Since the CCD is the mega powerhouse of entrepreneurship and cut-throat, capitalism business most of the major technological advances are likely produced by CCD corporations. The boom in technology is going to be dependent on science and math and all those sorts of subjects young folk should be learning these days. Therefore, popular culture, in my opinion will be radically futuristic.

The CCD will push the boundaries forward in theater, cinema, art and fashion by the 2040's that to us today, probably seems ridiculously cliche. But I picture an over the top futuristic, sci-fi, high-tech everything. When its part of your daily lives, such as your Wallet is more powerful than today's supercomputers, then impressing the general population with fantastic leaps forward requires one great jump at a time.

Jaxen loves this shit, but he also likes to do everything contrary to the mainstream expectation, therefore he is part of the subculture of extremely retro sorts of concepts (by retro I mean medieval). For instance, in this thread he wears high-fashion clothing designed to resemble a medieval coat of arms, so in essence, he's embracing antiquity in a futuristic way.

As far as music and movies go, I'd picture something similar. There are likely these weird throwbacks to extremes of history, greek, roman, medieval etc but done so in a sharply futuristic environment or experience. Virtual reality, or something.

[Connor Kent]

I tend to agree with you regarding all of this. The futuristic technologies in the CCD will be amazing. Just a quicky search at cracked.com turned up some really cool stuff coming down the road in the very near future.
4 Cartoon Villain Technologies that are coming to life- could easily see Ascendency using some of these :-)
5 pieces of star wars technology that exist right now
15 real sci fi technologies about to change the world

Very likely then, CCD pop culture will definitely reflect this optimism for the future and CCD know how. One only has to think back (or look up on youtube since I doubt anyone here was alive back then, including myself) to the Tomorrowland reels for Disneyland or school in the 50s and 60s (Tomorrow land, predictions for 1999 from 1967). The greatest example is Star Trek itself, portraying what the world would one day look like because of scientific progress. Nuclear tech was the future and America, flush from its emergence from WWII as top dog in every way, was proudly flexing its muscles.

Again, the 80s showed similar trends as the US finally pulled ahead of the Soviets. Computer tech in particular led to futuristic videos and films and music- synthesizers, 3d graphics and so on. Computers were magic and could do anything Notice the unbridled optimism that can be seen in these 80s computer commercials or use of computers in movies or unabashed or ironic machismo of action films or completely sincere (with PSA style very special episodes) sitcoms. That optimism and sense of superiority expressed itself in anabashedly proud flag waving films and song. This same kind attitude seems like it would prevalent in CCD.

Your comment about retro subcultures was interesting. I can see that happening easily especially traditional Russian or Eastern European groups. There might even be coopting of non-traditonally Slavic cultures like Byzantine, as seat of a great empire that outlasted Rome, or even Mongol, given the reach of the Golden Horde and its legacy. It might be similar to the way Hitler and Nazi "scientists" coopted or invented any Teutonic connections they could find to create a national history and identity. (Hitler called his the 3rd Reich connecting it to Charlemagne and the Holy Roman Empire.) Wagners Ride of Valkyries is a good example. Likely there'd be something similar in CCD.[/url]


Edited by Connor Kent, Apr 13 2014, 10:54 AM.

[Ascendancy]

The CCD exerts a lot of effort into domestic PSYOPs. In fact in the early history of Dominance consolidation, infiltration with the express purpose of influencing local culture became a priority. The CCD wanted to boost custody pride, allegiance, and nationalism in adjacent areas while at the same time diminishing similar values in their former nation. Combined with the Ascendancy's ta'veren-ness exerted whenever he toured these nations, the cultures shifted dramatically.

Therefore, in the decades since DVII joined the CCD, this campaign has only magnified. Heritage is acknowledged and allowed, even honored in the forms of museums and education, but former nations themselves are not. If that makes sense... Government influence upon the institutions that set the stage for pop-culture (cinema, celebrity, musicians, etc) do so in a way to encourage CCD nationalism. Jaxen's interpretation that the pop culture of the CCD is quite futuristic is a perfect example of this. The CCD wants to encourage the youngest generations to identify with the Custody, the future, and not identify with the past (at least not the recent past). Trends such as medieval, almost fantastical, explorations would be fine, but in a way that doesn't let people be reminded of the last thousand years.

We don't want people to think about the great empires of the past. Because they are living in the great empire of the present: the CCD.

[Connor Kent]

Reminds me of Ozymandias' psyops in The Watchmen. He did that very thing, even using toys and comicbooks.

Edit to add:
The more I think about Ascendency's psyops, the more I was reminded of Hitler and Nazi architecture- his use of buildings to evoke/instill the belief in the 1000 year Reich, that it was eternal and the future using the concept of "Ruin Value".


Edited by Connor Kent, Apr 13 2014, 04:22 PM.

[Spectra Lin]

When I first joined, I envisioned the popular culture of the world to be very dark in comparison to what we see today. Such as, the 1980's is to the 1950's as the 2040's are to the 2010's. Within the CCD, where drugs, and prostitution are legalized, it would take continuous streams of darker and darker imagery to evoke the same satisfaction in the audience. Like a growing tolerance to a drug. A movie that would be rated R in 1975 is PG in 2045; NC17 ratings in 2010 are PG-13 in 2045. This has a side effect of driving increasing demand for illegal escapades. Spectra is not a movie star in the sense of a Hollywood A-lister like today (Angelina Jolie, Halle Barry, Julia Roberts), yet her fame comes from the adult movie industry and she is every bit as A-list as America's sweetheart Julia Roberts.

Also driving changes in popular culture will be the source of fame. Spectra was a child star before she was anything else, but an illegal one, sold off to a Colombian big bad guy who liked to collect child stars like trinkets for his shelf. Pedophilia being illegal in both the USA and CCD, how did an 11 year old come to be so famous? The internet. Although productions made by legitimate companies like Netflix can compete with movie studios, in the future, illegal companies maintaining anonymity online would certainly be able to compete with legal ones. So you have to consider the source of popular culture, legality, and the audience desensitization. After 10 years of unspeakable, horrid disasters worldwide, people will flock to escapism: innocent or otherwise. Violent video games are no longer controversial because in comparison to the real world, they are quite tame!

So my vision of the 2040's is much darker than Connor's. One that has nothing to do with nationalism and pride, but rather desensitization and heightened tolerance levels. Things that make people cringe today would be perfectly acceptable by then. In general terms, at least.

As far as clothing and style go, Spectra is somewhat different because she was raised outside both the CCD and USA. She puts a cultural spin on fashion trends, however she showcases designer runway styles, so whatever is in vogue is what will be on her body. She wears a lot of metal and sharp edges. There are cutouts in her dresses that reveal curves of her body beneath. Her heels are usually multi-platformed and dangerous. Her hair is large and luxurious. Her lips are usually bright red and plump. So this represents to me also this dark edge on fashion choices. Even the fur coat she wore (until Hood's party got it all bloodied) was dyed frosty blue: turning something soft and luxurious into something that appears prickly and dangerous.

When she sang at Manifesto, there was an enormous amount of synthesized and electronic overlay to her voice. Again, even the music is dehumanized: harmonies are made more from machine than from flesh.

[Elias Donovan]

I can't comment because Utah has no pop culture. heh

[Connor Kent]

I think you bring up a valid point, Spectra- desensitization. Over time, people have become desensitized in their entertainment and what they find titillating or stimulating. The internet has only exacerbated that trend in regard to fetishes that range from odd but benign to odd to straight up sick. Peoples interests run the gamut from things like voraphilia and furries to very sadistic. So I would agree that there would be extremely dark elements to CCD culture. Spectra Lin being a media darling while having come from the adult entertainment industry is not that much of a stretch. One only has to think of Jenna Jameson or Sasha Gray to see that that kind of thing could happen very easily. (Though I honestly am not sure that a majority of people would not feel a great deal of empathy for her knowing that she came from the child-sex trade. Being peripherally aware that many in the adult industry might have been abused is one thing. Knowing that she specifically had been exploited as a child and then, as a survival mechanism, parlayed that into fame that included pornography is something else. Just personal opinion but I think is born out below.)

But at the same time, there are two objections I'd make to a completely dystopian/almost deSade-like acceptance of anything and everything. First, extremes in one direction almost always elicit a counter-reaction in the opposite direction. We see this even today in regard to pop-culture. As we get more extreme in one-direction, we also see elements of society, or even of the culture itself, that are filling the vacuum of the other end with material. I would argue (just off the top of my head) that resurgence of Pixar/Disney films, the continued rise of super-hero movies- esp with characters whose core is goodness, like Superman or Captain America- as well as book series whose themes are about friendship and loyalty in the face of darkness (WOT itself, Harry Potter, LOTR, etc), TV shows about the same things, and overtly religiously themed entertainment represent this need that society wants to fill.

Escapism is not the only reason to turn to music, tv, movies or whatever, nor does it have to be purely dark. People also find things to "feed" their soul so as to be able to get by with some semblance of hope. So I find it very unlikely that the majority would be desensitized to that degree or that the world of that time would be completely dystopian in their acceptance of casual brutality. Along with those elements, I think you'd also see attempts to be uplifting and positive. (It's the reason why positive/happy/love themed pop-music trends always last longer than angry/depressing/nihilistic music trends. At some point people get tired of feeling down or focusing on the negative. It's too depressing.) Escapism from the horrors of life involve positive things too, not just soul-numbing entertainment.

Again, I am not disagreeing that what society has become used to wouldn't be worse than what exists now. That would be undeniable. But I think that along with all of that, we would find pop-culture elements in completely the opposite direction.

And that gets to my second objection to a purely nihilistic soul-sucking escapism. If, as Ascendency has said, CCD culture has been designed to make people feel as if they are living in the greatest empire that has ever existed, a place of innovation and promise, then pop-culture cannot be purely dark. "Government influence upon the institutions that set the stage for pop-culture (cinema, celebrity, musicians, etc) do so in a way to encourage CCD nationalism. Jaxen's interpretation that the pop culture of the CCD is quite futuristic is a perfect example of this. The CCD wants to encourage the youngest generations to identify with the Custody, the future, and not identify with the past (at least not the recent past)." For that to be true, pop-culture would need to reflect that sense of hope for the future.

So I see a more balanced state of pop-culture. Certainly those elements you describe. And there has been a shift as to what has become acceptable. But at the same time, even in mainstream pop-culture, I think we'd see a lot of positive or hopeful things. Otherwise, it would just be Gotham, turning on itself.

[Andrew Koehler]

New Captain America movie wherein history's greatest soldier face punches Ascendancy? Yes. All the yes.