11-27-2021, 08:30 PM
Female false dragon is interesting, I could see that as an explanation of the name. The other thing I have now seen suggested is that what we saw was a visualisation of compulsion and not the madness at all. Why name the female voice but not the male though? If they were both false dragons from the past (real or madness), they could have picked a name from the lore for the man. Or not named them at all. I don’t have an answer to any of that, I’m just intrigued. I think it’s something we’re supposed to be questioning.
Until we know more, I’m not ruling out the possibility that certain male channelers are being manipulated and *they* are accepting it as a manifestation of the madness they know they have from the taint. Both times we’ve seen the madness so far has been in potential candidates for the DR
Or maybe Logain called the voice Elusha and it was just something cut or that we find out later >_<
We see Logain test the shield once before he breaks out. Either he was biding his time and just keeping them on their toes (which means he must have somehow known when the army arrived) or he was pushing and failing until that final time (and the army’s arrival was coincidence). I’ve decided I agree with Jaxen that it was the latter, he was waiting for the distraction.
Moiraine’s motivations and how far she is prepared to go depends entirely on what you think she believes about Logain. She only denounces him when she sees Kerene awake -- so did she keep him talking as a distraction, or did she suddenly change her tune because they were no longer alone and she couldn’t risk being exposed? Could be either. She seems genuinely not to know when she speaks to Lan. She was positive they were looking for a twenty year old before (to the point she dismissed Nynaeve for being too old), but her certainty seemed shaken to me -- she was clearly questioning the possibility of Logain being the real deal, at least at that point.
Alanna even shares her fears that they may gentle the DR when he’s meant to fight alongside them in the Last Battle. If she had any doubts at all, Moiraine would be considering that too.
If Moiraine believes Logain isn’t the DR, then she kept him talking until she had the back-up to successfully shield him. In that scenario I totally agree she wouldn’t have risked the camp to engineer the chance to speak to him, but may have used the opportunity the attack presented to be sure -- and promptly dismissed the possibility after their brief conversation. Perhaps the voices wanting something from Logain (her “the Wheel doesn’t want anything” comment) convinced her he was just mad, since it was the only reason he gave for being the DR.
If she believes he could be the DR though, then I think she would do whatever she thought was necessary. That would include facilitating an escape so that he could not be gentled, if she was really convinced. Liandrin herself points out they’re hundreds of miles away from Tar Valon still, and it’s unlikely they will be able to keep him shielded that long; it’s the whole reason she wants to break Tower law and gentle him there and then. Moiraine can’t risk that happening if she has any suspicion he might really be the DR. Honestly, I don’t think there’s a sacrifice she wouldn’t make.
I’m not sure we know what Moiraine believes, though, and I’m not sure what we’re supposed to think. But like I said, on a second watch I couldn’t see anything that suggested she was involved. It was the “we don’t have much time” dialogue that made me question it, but that just as easily fits with the scenario of her distracting him. So I think you’re right about that.
Liandrin must have known Logain’s strength because of holding the shield, she even comments on it when she gloats to Moiraine about how hard it is (after passing the burden on). If nothing else she knew she would not be able to shield or gentle him on her own. Even chasing down the boy at the beginning, she required her sisters’ support to do it. Not that I’m saying she definitely didn’t weaken the shield. Just that (ignoring what we know of her book character) I didn’t notice anything that suggests she did sabotage other than her very vocal opinion that they should just gentle him and be done with it. She’s respecting Tower law even if she’s unhappy about it.
About Nyn I sort of agree; I think we saw Nynaeve embracing saidar with such ferocity that she glowed like the sun. But Logain couldn’t see that because he’s a man. We haven’t gotten to the distinction between the powers much in the show yet (though it’s been confirmed that the power works the same). So why did he comment that she was so bright? That’s what I thought was ta’veren related, but apparently it was a manifestation of what she was doing with saidar, basically all the things at once, and that was visible to everyone. The sheer magnitude of her Healing would certainly show how strong she was. But it was the glow he spoke about specifically. Possibly he was being poetic and using Moiraine’s words to him moments before, using her metaphor in place of basically saying Nynaeve is super strong (and therefore potentially the DR).
I think the Grinwells will remain ambiguous. Also agree that it stands on the toes of Perrin’s story if he killed her unknowingly, however even if it was the fade Mat will know he failed to protect her. I don’t think they will go the guilt angle anyway, I think this will somehow lead into Mat’s fear of ending up like his parents and failing the people around him. To be clear, I don’t think Mat did it, but rather the dagger and/or the blackness did. Literally like possession. It’s his bloody hands and trance in the dream that makes me think it wasn’t the fade. Either way, they died because the boys stopped at the farm. So it’s their fault even if I’m wrong and it was the fade
I don't’ think the cgi is always the strongest, the quality seems quite inconsistent to me. It was mentioned in the ama and Rafe said something about covid having made things extra difficult and they couldn’t do all the normal processes. I think that might account for some of the choppiness as well to be honest. They had a HUGE break in filming and might not have been able to reshoot as much as they’d like. To be fair Ba’alzamon’s appearance is pretty much as described in the books. I think it’s a little cheesy but my husband thinks he’s creepy af. I wonder if they decided to make him more cgi and less man/realistic to lend itself to a mysterious DO impression.
Until we know more, I’m not ruling out the possibility that certain male channelers are being manipulated and *they* are accepting it as a manifestation of the madness they know they have from the taint. Both times we’ve seen the madness so far has been in potential candidates for the DR
Or maybe Logain called the voice Elusha and it was just something cut or that we find out later >_<
We see Logain test the shield once before he breaks out. Either he was biding his time and just keeping them on their toes (which means he must have somehow known when the army arrived) or he was pushing and failing until that final time (and the army’s arrival was coincidence). I’ve decided I agree with Jaxen that it was the latter, he was waiting for the distraction.
Moiraine’s motivations and how far she is prepared to go depends entirely on what you think she believes about Logain. She only denounces him when she sees Kerene awake -- so did she keep him talking as a distraction, or did she suddenly change her tune because they were no longer alone and she couldn’t risk being exposed? Could be either. She seems genuinely not to know when she speaks to Lan. She was positive they were looking for a twenty year old before (to the point she dismissed Nynaeve for being too old), but her certainty seemed shaken to me -- she was clearly questioning the possibility of Logain being the real deal, at least at that point.
Alanna even shares her fears that they may gentle the DR when he’s meant to fight alongside them in the Last Battle. If she had any doubts at all, Moiraine would be considering that too.
If Moiraine believes Logain isn’t the DR, then she kept him talking until she had the back-up to successfully shield him. In that scenario I totally agree she wouldn’t have risked the camp to engineer the chance to speak to him, but may have used the opportunity the attack presented to be sure -- and promptly dismissed the possibility after their brief conversation. Perhaps the voices wanting something from Logain (her “the Wheel doesn’t want anything” comment) convinced her he was just mad, since it was the only reason he gave for being the DR.
If she believes he could be the DR though, then I think she would do whatever she thought was necessary. That would include facilitating an escape so that he could not be gentled, if she was really convinced. Liandrin herself points out they’re hundreds of miles away from Tar Valon still, and it’s unlikely they will be able to keep him shielded that long; it’s the whole reason she wants to break Tower law and gentle him there and then. Moiraine can’t risk that happening if she has any suspicion he might really be the DR. Honestly, I don’t think there’s a sacrifice she wouldn’t make.
I’m not sure we know what Moiraine believes, though, and I’m not sure what we’re supposed to think. But like I said, on a second watch I couldn’t see anything that suggested she was involved. It was the “we don’t have much time” dialogue that made me question it, but that just as easily fits with the scenario of her distracting him. So I think you’re right about that.
Liandrin must have known Logain’s strength because of holding the shield, she even comments on it when she gloats to Moiraine about how hard it is (after passing the burden on). If nothing else she knew she would not be able to shield or gentle him on her own. Even chasing down the boy at the beginning, she required her sisters’ support to do it. Not that I’m saying she definitely didn’t weaken the shield. Just that (ignoring what we know of her book character) I didn’t notice anything that suggests she did sabotage other than her very vocal opinion that they should just gentle him and be done with it. She’s respecting Tower law even if she’s unhappy about it.
About Nyn I sort of agree; I think we saw Nynaeve embracing saidar with such ferocity that she glowed like the sun. But Logain couldn’t see that because he’s a man. We haven’t gotten to the distinction between the powers much in the show yet (though it’s been confirmed that the power works the same). So why did he comment that she was so bright? That’s what I thought was ta’veren related, but apparently it was a manifestation of what she was doing with saidar, basically all the things at once, and that was visible to everyone. The sheer magnitude of her Healing would certainly show how strong she was. But it was the glow he spoke about specifically. Possibly he was being poetic and using Moiraine’s words to him moments before, using her metaphor in place of basically saying Nynaeve is super strong (and therefore potentially the DR).
I think the Grinwells will remain ambiguous. Also agree that it stands on the toes of Perrin’s story if he killed her unknowingly, however even if it was the fade Mat will know he failed to protect her. I don’t think they will go the guilt angle anyway, I think this will somehow lead into Mat’s fear of ending up like his parents and failing the people around him. To be clear, I don’t think Mat did it, but rather the dagger and/or the blackness did. Literally like possession. It’s his bloody hands and trance in the dream that makes me think it wasn’t the fade. Either way, they died because the boys stopped at the farm. So it’s their fault even if I’m wrong and it was the fade
I don't’ think the cgi is always the strongest, the quality seems quite inconsistent to me. It was mentioned in the ama and Rafe said something about covid having made things extra difficult and they couldn’t do all the normal processes. I think that might account for some of the choppiness as well to be honest. They had a HUGE break in filming and might not have been able to reshoot as much as they’d like. To be fair Ba’alzamon’s appearance is pretty much as described in the books. I think it’s a little cheesy but my husband thinks he’s creepy af. I wonder if they decided to make him more cgi and less man/realistic to lend itself to a mysterious DO impression.
![[Image: thal-banner-scaled.jpg]](http://thefirstage.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/thal-banner-scaled.jpg)